Hebrews 12 -- Chastisement?

HEBREWS 12: CHASTISEMENT, ESAU, AND CONSUMING FIRE

This portion of the New Testament spends the first 11 verses discussing “chastisement.” It speaks of the love associated with being chastised and how punishment doesn’t feel good in the immediate, but is looked back upon with at least mild gratitude.

Several questions arise:

1. how does god chastise us today? Was Katrina a form of divine chastisement? Can an unplanned pregnancy or the loss of a job be god’s way of telling us we are need of more faith in him? When exactly are we chastised by him?
2. can god’s chastisement come through the earthly authorities like police and judges?
3. if we don’t detect any chastisement, does that mean we are not being chastised? If so, does that mean that we are not loved/sons of god?
4. verses 12-17 list several examples of personalities that call for change: those who hold bitterness between friends, those who do not keep peace, the profane (like Esau), and fornicators. So my question is: are there benchmarks to be reached? When have we had enough chastisement to cure any bitterness or profanity we may possess? I suppose this could be my biggest question about the bible, period – when do we reach “good enough”? (secretly, I don’t think there is a good enough, but without a goal to shoot for sometimes I get the impression that god is playing with a stacked deck).
5. I reckon the first 11 verses on chastisement are pretty straightforward, but after that, it seems that author drops the whole subject and moves on to talk about Moses and the things that can be shaken on earth. Maybe it’s just the KJ translation, but I could not make hide nor hair of the last half of chapter 12.

Conclusions?

Casi: Maybe it is that God lets things run their natural course in the way of chastisement. I have noticed that he seems to do this in many other areas (healing, for example), why wouldn’t it be the same for this particular action. Perhaps it is that God simply uses our authorities - the government, our parents - as an extension of his authority instead of raining down fire on us like he did in the days of Sodom and Gomorra. Perhaps God lets us suffer the consequences of our own actions, getting an STD for promiscuity, or going to jail for theft, instead of appearing to us personally to punish us. Maybe Hurricane Katrina happened because of the change in weather patterns, and maybe my uncle lost his job because the company had to downsize and God can use those things for his purposes, but that’s it. And maybe I do lose my job because I lied to my boss and I need to grow up and learn to face the consequences of my actions like a son faces the discipline of his father.

Andy: But if this is the case, how does this address those of us who are not promiscuous thieves? Are not people who make fewer rash decisions still in need of frequent character realignment? Just because I don’t overtly steal from others or break god’s commands when it comes to promiscuity does not mean that I have a righteous character. furthermore, for every individual who does get arrested or afflicted with an std, there are many more who continue with similar behavior consequence-free. No, this theory definitely has holes and I’m still left wondering how and why the lord will chastise me. I reckon I’m missing something crucial.

Casi: However, because the Bible does say that god punishes his sons, maybe bad guys get away with doing bad things because God is more concerned with making sure that his loved ones get punished for their misbehavior. Another important point for consideration is that you or I cannot possibly know all the consequences Joe might be facing for his promiscuity or whatever other sin if he does not show it on the outside: guilt and remorse, conflict in future relationships, destruction of past relationships, emotional baggage, transference of the std (sorry, a little stuck on this one), etc. etc. All I’m saying is that I don’t think God causes cancer to punish you for cheating on your income taxes. He’s a logical God and he made the universe to follow his rules.

Andy: I don’t think god is logical. He’s operating on a whole different plane. His thoughts are not our thoughts. The phrase “god-thing” comes to mind as does, “god works in mysterious ways.” I suspect that god seems logical when our ends appear to align with his but beyond earthly wisdom when we cannot figure out the how or why.